Untouchables (aka Dalits) as we know are the lowest caste in Hindu religious societies, and we all, Indians and non-Indians alike have reluctantly agreed to their existence as part and parcel of a Hindu society? But there seems to be still some questions about existence and reference to some Christians and Muslims as Dalit Christians and Dalit Muslims and why they would not be just Christians or Muslims, or at the most, Catholics, protestants or Lutherans ..! What better way to answer this question than to take a real life example that has come my way –
Question from Ms A.
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Hi there
I have been on a quest for nearly a fortnight and stumbled across your blog. Boy, would I be super pleased if I received your advice and/or insight into a matter that has been nagging me!
I am a first generation Indian born and bred outside of the motherland. My whole existence socially has been dominated by western forces as my parents did not immerse me in the indian community. As a consequence, I didn’t make any indian friends nor did I have an interest in my culture until later in life. I am however very religious but I don’t make a song and dance about it. I care to treat religion as a personal matter that doesn’t involve any other participant. The irony of it all is that my parents are orthodox Indians but to their credit, they are much more progressive than other families.
I have met a great guy that I have introduced to my folks and in their eyes he is a winner bar one thing. He is Catholic – apparently, this falls into the lower caste system of India. I have with fail found nothing to say that Catholicism even falls within the caste system. If anything, the furtherest I have seen papers take it is because it doesn’t fall within a traditional Hindu caste, it defaults as an untouchable caste.
I think this is crap to be honest.
I would like your insight. Fortunately, my guy has been immersed in the Hindu culture and I’ve already told him that there is no chance in my converting.
So my question – is there any truth that Catholicism is an untouchable caste?
Thanks and kind regards
A
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Straight forward answer to this question is No, Catholicism on the whole is not considered an untouchable caste in India.
However, are there Catholic converts who were originally from Dalit/Untouchable/lower castes? Yes.
In spite of conversion are they still considered and treated like Dalits/Untouchables and as a lower caste. Yes, Yes, Yes and a million times Yes. (check this BBC report – no refuge from caste in Christianity)
Are Ms.A’s parents using this as a quick excuse of somehow relegating him to an untouchable caste and that way getting her to disregard her love? Maybe.
Would it be really sad if they actually succeed? Of course, Yes.
If they do succeed, will it be just an other instance which goes to prove that, the stigma of untouchability permeates even the so called progressive Indians (including Ms.A’ parents and even Ms.A for that matter)? Need I say anything!
So overall, there are definitely grounds on which Ms. A’s parents might be right in at least the part where they claim that the guy is a lower caste or an untouchable, though they might be wrong in classifying the whole Catholic faith as an untouchable caste.
To answer this question in depth though we will need some more specifics that Ms.A has not provided in her question.
And they would be:
1. Is the guy an Indian? If so, Were his parents/grandparents from the lower castes or from one of the untouchable castes and did they convert to Catholicism?
2. Is he a non-Indian who seems to be interested in Hinduism? If so, is he White, Black, Hispanic or of some other race?
Now I am torn between waiting for Ms.A to answer these questions before moving on with the rest of the blog Vs. Assuming, based on my experience that, what we are dealing with here is Option 1, the guy is an Indian who is of Dalit or Lower caste descent ..!
Hmm …! Well, Patience, I have been told is a great virtue! So wait, I will … to the chagrin of all of you 😉
I will wait for Ms. A’s response till later tomorrow to get her side of the story and then irrespective of what her answer is, I will present my analysis for both the above options (Indian and non-Indian).
In the meantime check this video starting at 1hr:15min:55sec mark. Watch from this point on for at least about 2 to 3 minutes to get a glimpse into the ill-reaching effects of caste system in Christianity.
—–So its been 48 hours now since I asked Ms.A to answer a few extra questions but, I have not got any response so will move on with the conclusion. We will answer the question assuming both of the below options:
1. Is the guy an Indian? If so, Were his parents/grandparents from the lower castes or from one of the untouchable castes and did they convert to Catholicism?
2. Is he a non-Indian who seems to be interested in Hinduism? If so, is he White, Black, Hispanic or of some other race?
Option 1: Basically the question I am asking here is, Is the guy (assuming he is an Indian) from an untouchable or lower caste descent? And if the answer is Yes, then the explanation as to why Ms. A’s parents called him so is pretty self evident because even though their family might have converted to Catholicism/Christianity, even if it was a few generations ago it still doesn’t erase the stamp of untouchability for them. To make it a little more clear, lets take an analogy. It may seem unrelated to begin with but stay with me and it will all make sense.
Lets say, we have a tablet market and different tablets get manufactured in these different countries Japan, Germany, US and finally China and depending on where they get made they are marked as Made in Japan, Made in Germany, Made in the US and Made in US respectively. Now in spite of being made in different countries can they all be branded as Apple devices, yes, can they marked as Toshiba, Samsung, Sony or Nexus? Yes, yes, yes and yes. But does that change their ‘Made in’ status? Absolutely not. Made in, stamp is for the life of the device.
Now lets look at the consumer side of this equation: Lets say there is a perceived notion that the quality of the product and its coolness factor is as follows – Made in US, then Germany, then Japan and finally those that are made in China. So if we have consumers that believe in this coolness ranking, then it doesn’t, matter what brand ends up carrying the product, those made in China will always be deemed as less worthy. So if someone has made up their mind to not buy any product made in China, then it doesn’t matter even if the product is the latest iPad, from Apple, they wouldn’t wanna be caught dead with them. So is the system of Indian caste system. As per your birth you are branded a specific caste and so will be your kids and their kids and so on, changing your religion, city and or profession might get you going to a different temple or different office building but you can’t shake your caste off.
So in this case Ms. A’s guy, like the tablet, Made in China, may have a ‘Born in an Untouchable family’ stamped on him. And Ms. A’s parents much like the consumers prejudiced against buying anything ‘made in China’ are against having anything to do with a guy stamped with ‘Born an Untouchable’. And blinded by this prejudice they are not able to bless this relationship even when by their own admission, if the guy is a gem. And this kind of a remark is not uncommon at all in an Indian marriage circle, it is very common to hear parents/match makers claim that they found every single thing they were looking for in a mach and more but they couldn’t proceed any further because the boy was of a lower caste. So if they were looking for lets say a match for their daughter and she works say as a school teacher and they find that the dean of the university in that city is available, they would still not give her hand in marriage to him if he is an untouchable. On the flip side they would be OK with marrying her to a 30 year slacker, with no real life and still living at home if the caste matches.
So we can conclude this section by stating that in spite of the guy, being accepted as brilliant in all aspects of life, he is dismissed as not a worthy match because he is from an untouchable family, even if he is a Catholic and over which he has no control.
Option 2: Is he a non-Indian who seems to be interested in Hinduism? If so, is he White, Black, Hispanic or of some other race?
Though a unique explanation, this is not totally unheard of, it is just a mechanism of attributing a low caste to someone who is not even part of it to begin with and then letting the inherent prejudice of caste do the rest of the damage.
So if we remind our self that caste system is not past and parcel of non-Hindu religions, and that non Indians have nothing inherently dividing them by castes, then Ms. A’s parent’s tying Catholicism to Untouchability is plain hogwash!1. It could be that they don’t want to outright tell her that they don’t want her marrying this guy so are tying this person’s practice of Catholicism to Untouchability.
2. If the guy is a black/Hispanic or some other darker skinned race, then they might be trying to cover their color prejudice under the mask of caste system. Typically Indian lower castes and untouchables are dark skinned (there are definitely exceptions). So it is very easy for Indians (upper castes) to mistreat other dark skinned people. Here is a whole story, Justice for Sparkle, covered by MSNBC that deals this topic. In summary though a Math professor in Georgia (an Indian immigrant) did not like the fact that his son married a black girl. He felt that it degraded the family value, so he had a hired hand kill her for ten thousand dollars.
And as for why this person has embraced Hinduism, I can and at the same time can’t understand it. I know that most outsiders get enamored by the mystery of India and it also gets confusing with the Buddhist values being added on to Hindu religion and hence giving it a peaceful and non-violent flavor. But hopefully my efforts will bear fruit and those who I reach out to can realize that if a religion can teach parents to kill their own children and its primary purpose is to divide its followers then it is not something you go out and embrace but keep your distance from and if possibly fight against.
Now where does this leave Ms. A:
Firstly, it is an uphill battle fore her, now that her parents have already tied this guy to Untouchability.
Secondly, with most Indian kids, though they might have grown all westernized, they still get full financial support through college and after by their parents, they might even be living with them, so if this is the situation Ms. A is in then it will become tougher for her to stand up to them.
Finally, I wish her all the strength and courage to live for her convictions and she can enriche her life with what she will learn from this experience, irrespective of the outcome.
Hello!
I am here and apologies for my delayed response. To answer your question, he is Sri Lankan (Burgher) and has family from South India. His dad is anglican and his mother is catholic.
Putting all this aside though, I am so grateful for the effort and time you have invested in considering this matter. I think this is a very relevant discussion – and blog – for people like me to know that there are other like-minded folk that think and share these thoughts. Thank you for your time. I am most grateful.
Kind regards
A
Hey there,
Thanks for getting back on this topic and introducing me to the Sri Lankan, Burgher community. For those interested there is a Wikepidia page at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgher_people.
And based on this I think that either your parents are just not interested in this guy or based on his South Indian origin and mix up of genealogy have categorized him as an untouchable. Because I see no outright proof tying him to an untouchable caste.
And thanks for appreciating my posts/blog. Hopefully you will be kind enough to keep me and the readers abreast of the latest developments. We are not against any individual per se but do like to study the various ways caste system manifests itself, hence the request.
And once again, good luck to you.
Hi KRI
Thanks for your kind words. I thought I’d leave a message to let you know where things are at.
After a fair bit of discussion and understanding, my parents have come around and are accepting of the relationship. I am so thrilled and touched by their understanding – more so the fact that they are open to a new beginning and that they are willing to also move with the times. I guess my biggest challenge now is to get use to it (first one to pass the parentals test) and enjoy it!
Thanks again for your post.
Kind regards
A